ArchiCAD vs Revit Grand Challenge, this could work
I’m going to share another ArchiCAD vs Revit video. But keep reading because I am also going to use ArchiCAD to teach you about your preferred BIM tool.
Last week I talked about comparing BIM platforms and shared some comparisons I’d collected over the past few months. Well there’s one more I need to share. Last week’s video was interesting, but it also raised many concerns among plenty of viewers. Some of the issues with the video were mentioned in the post, others were pointed out in the comments, and on Twitter. Everything pretty much boils down to this: an ArchiCAD expert shouldn’t be doing a video on how Revit doesn’t compare. They don’t have the knowledge to do the Revit side justice. I agree. And it seems that the BIMEquity team that created the original video realized this too. To rectify this, they have recorded a second video and took a different approach. They did the ArchiCAD half and are asking for Revit responses.
The above video points to the real goal: not a definitive answer, but education. It comes the closest to the concept I proposed in my post about the Ideal BIM Software. I’ll show you mine. You show me yours. Who’s up for it? Is there someone who wants to record a video that covers the same topics? Maybe you could finish the video by showing something else and asking a question back to ArchiCAD users. And if your blood is boiling because this video (in a simplistic view) is just about 3D, answer the video and then ask a question that is only about linked data. Or scheduling. Or data transfer. Or 12D.
This is the same concept as what I am trying to do with my series of guest bloggers talking about Object Making in various BIM software. (FYI: Revit Approach and ArchiCAD Approach) We all know each program has its strengths and weaknesses. We all know that comparing ArchiCAD to Revit is like comparing apples to oranges. But come on. Any of us can explain why apples and oranges are hard to compare, but seriously who can explain why ArchiCAD and Revit are hard to compare? Who can give some examples of the ineffable? Let’s make simple videos that help explain both programs. The good and the bad of each program will come out. And who knows? Maybe the developers will watch the videos and learn something about what they need to improve.
Let me Explain this Another Way
I’ve said this over and over again. Learning about other programs will teach you about the software you use. And more importantly about BIM in general, which of course is really about the future of the construction industry. And that is what truly matters.
If you don’t want to record a response to the video above, here’s something else you should do. Over on the Graphisoft North America blog I’ve been writing about ArchiCAD 17 and there are three posts in particular that I feel have a lot of value to all BIM users. Part of me wishes they were generic enough to go viral around the entire BIM community; but I also realize that they wouldn’t be as good if they weren’t specific. Each post covers some big issues:
Global vs Local: Macro Solutions vs Micro Solutions.
Parameter vs Attribute: the data in your elements.
Are these posts very ArchiCAD-centric? Yes. But they cover some universal issues and hopefully the ArchiCAD lens will allow you to see their analogs in Allplan or Bentley Systems, etc. Because your tools might be slightly different, but viewing your data as global or local and graphic, metadata, or digital approximations is going to revolutionize how you think about your day to day work. These divisions get to the heart of what BIM is. And I need you to read these posts so that we can all explore these topics together.
So jump over to the Graphisoft North America blog and read some of the above posts (especially the last one). And then comment on how you view, pars, and utilize this data. Whether you use ArchiCAD, Revit, or some BIM program you invented. I want to hear about it. Because I bet there’s some way Revit wants you to handle these topics which is going to give me clarity on how I can better use, explain, and share ArchiCAD.
UPDATE January 29th, 2016: So often ARCHICAD vs Revit debates devolve into name calling. The aim of the BIM Challenge discussed above was to show how we do the same things in different software. Clearly we were all too busy to tackle that challenge. That’s okay. Fortunately students exist and have more time than us professionals. Here’s a link to the thesis of Vincent Marynissen and Bart Moons. Their thesis was modeling an Alvar Aalto building in ARCHICAD 18 and Revit 2016. At the beginning of the project they knew neither software. There are no definitive answers because there will never be definitive answers. But their research and experience is super interesting. And exactly what I was hoping to see happen with the BIM Challenge: the same work done in different software so that we could learn something.
Help everyone learn about BIM by teaching us about Revit and ArchiCAD in short videos. Share the analog of the video above in Revit (or Bentley Systems or Vectorworks). And then ask a question back. Follow Shoegnome on Facebook and Twitter for more of that AND thoughts on being an Architect in the 21st Century. Trying to make a decision about which BIM software to use. I have the ultimate answer for you. Seriously, here’s BIM software you should use.
seandburke
Game on! I will take that challenge.
Jared Banks
You sir are my hero.
Olufemi Ogunlana
i am the referee here,…………………
nicolas miard
I react on this post to comments made on the previous ArchiCAD vs Revit post.
Even though I agree on the fact that regardless to the software chosen, it’s the power users who drive a BIM workflow, I can’t help but underline some features that make ArchiCAD’s ergonomics truly superior to Revit’s
ArchiCAD is WAY MORE direct, you don’t have to enter specifics menus to draw the limits of a slab, a roof, or and new cotations to existing chains.
I’ve been working with Revit 2012 for a year now (no choice when I got the job), after 4 years of ArchiCAD, and it’s really painful! I’m really tired with ergonomics….
I wish I could test Revit 2014, but my boss doesn’t believe in upgrades…
Jared Banks
I’ve heard many similar views from other ArchiCAD users forced to use Revit.
By the way, you might want to let your boss know that on February 1 2015 there will be NO MORE UPGRADES for Autodesk products. Maintainence/Subscription only. Which means (by my interpretation) if you have Revit 2016 and aren’t on subscription, you’ll have to buy a new license to get Revit 2017…I’m sure all the details will be forthcoming in the next year or so. Which also means that if she waits another year or two, it’ll be just as cheap to buy ArchiCAD and just use Revit 2012 for legacy projects. And by just as cheap, I mean actually much, much cheaper. 🙂
I learned about this news from here:
nicolas miard
I’ve read about the new subscription program, available alongside the simple purchase. I didn’t know that simple purchase would be abandoned after 2015. good to know.
I’ll talk about this to my boss, I know she’ll be pissed :-P. I hope she’s planning to buy the upgrades, even once, and at least get Revit 2014 and get decent stairs functions/ components. the 2012’s is sooooo shitty.
If not, well, I won’t spend another year on may iMac 2011/Parallels Desktop/Win7/Revit fucked up “workstation” (yes you read well…..we’re running Revit on MACS……and, wait for it,….we only got win7 64 bit this year!!!!)
fudge it!
nicolas miard
BTW, I’ve tried Allplan (2012) too, because some partners chose it (when I tried freelance work) and…..well….it’s even worse. I still don’t understand how the Nemetschek Group can still sell Allplan and Vectorwoks to architects when they have ArchiCAD…it’s almost a crime
Thomas Graabæk
Hi, I’m one of the BIM Equity guys from Denmark who did the videos, and I would like to make a few points.
It’s true, that comparing Revit and ArchiCAD, can be like comparing apples and oranges, but a person or a firm must do this comparison, before they choose what BIM software to use.
We’re talking to a lot of design architects, who don’t like BIM, because it’s not flexible enough for them to sketch in, they don’t have freedom to sculp, it doesn’t make beautiful drawings, and files quickly become heavy and the app gets slow. Perhaps this is more true for Revit than ArchiCAD, and we’d like to show this in an interesting way.
The guy in the video operating Revit is a long time Revit user, and he’s – in my opinion – much more skilled at Revit than the average user. He’s also operating the ArchiCAD model, even though he has hardly ever used the program. The video of Revit and ArchiCAD is recorded on the same computer, and to make the speed test real, we have 50 stories with curved walls, doors, windows and lots of furniture.
My only hope for these videos is that people realize that they have a choice, that there are several different BIM tools out there, and I hope they watch the videos with a sense of humor. – We had a lot of fun making them 🙂
Jared Banks
Thomas, thanks for the comments and clarifications. And you raise a great point. While many of us have already decided which BIM software to use (and like these comparisons for academic purposes), there are a lot of people who need to see these examples to help them make decisions. Because they haven’t bought into BIM yet. And they need these points of discussion and comparison to help them understand which way to go. And why. Thank you!
Jared Banks
Also a question: can you tell us the specifications of the computer used for these videos?
Thomas Graabæk
It was a Windows laptop from Lenovo, and it was not a new machine. That’s all I know 🙂
Jim
I used Archicad all through Arch school (graduated in ’05) then made the switch to Revit and never really looked back, I just liked Revit better (at the time) since then Archicad has grown by leaps and bounds, I really think Autodesk acquiring Revit was sort of a bad thing, I wish Google or someone else had, the growth has been marginal, but at the time I swear, Revit was better 🙂
My two cents is that the first video is just goofy, you could fix the “skins” issue in like 2 seconds in Revit, or preset up the wall to work that way in first place, and for the windows, ummm “real” curved windows are super expensive and not really realistic anyhow, that was acutally something I think I disliked about Archicad, so I’m not sure why that’s an issue, but, you can make windows (families) real easily and without programming in Revit, so no biggie there either really (if you wanted curved glass that is). Yes though, making slanted walls in Revit is sort of a PITA, but it is fully possible, but Archicad may have Revit on that one in terms of ease, though I bet there are a lot of things you can do in Revit that are tricky in Archicad (maybe not though, it’s come a LONG way since I used it last) So I hope seandburke’s rival video reflects that.
In any event, yes, apples and oranges. I seriously wish I knew Archicad as well as I knew Revit though, it seems like it might be good for some projects.
Jared Banks
Jim, I agree. I think Revit being bought by Autodesk was a mixed blessing all around. But of course if they didn’t buy Revit, they would have bought something else and we’d be talking Revit, ArchiCAD, and AutodeskBIM in a very similar manner. Then Revit would be a scrappy underdog, just like ArchiCAD is.
I hope Sean’s video reflects a lot of what you say as well. There’s definitely a difference between saying something is easy or not an issue and showing that being the case. I think a lot of us power users forget that the easy and obvious stuff for us isn’t easy or obvious for the average user. But we also need to be careful about saying a feature isn’t needed because of real world costs. Should we not be able to model curved roofs because those are expensive too? Or complex curtain walls? Or blobitecture? Or green walls or PV panels or geothermal systems? I could see it argued that spending time developing a curved window is not a good use of a software developer’s resources because it is an uncommon item, but not because it’s realworld expensive. I know that’s just semantics and I’m sure what you meant, but…
Either way, it raises the issue of priorities in software development. And that’s also what i hope these videos show. We need tools that give us freedom to design what and how we want. Everything out of the box is nice, but as long as we can still do everything (through more esoteric methods), that’s what matters. And as someone trying to decide which software to use, one needs to see that a) everything you need to do can be done and b) the important things you need to do regularly are easy enough to do.
Also by the way, I checked out your blog. Very nice. Covers a lot of graphic focused stuff that really interests me. As graphics can be the barrier for many people to fall in love with BIM. Yes BIM is way more than that, but ugly drawings can really turn some people off. As that’s what BIM must match first.
Thomas Graabæk
Hi guys. While you’re working with a reply to the second video, we’ve posted a third video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj8PT8rE6Yw
– This time it’s easier, so please show us how the workflow of sketching a facade is in Revit…
Jared Banks
Very nice! I love that everything in this video is simple, practical, and the little things we have to do on every project. Can’t wait for the response videos.
Juan Carlos Palomino Barrios
Saludos desde Perú… que bien hallar que ArchiCAD va de la mano con la eficiencia y la vanguardia en el mundo BIM
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Wes Macaulay
Revit will be ‘subscription only’ but the bundles will still be able to kept in perpetuity — for now. Who knows that Autodesk will do in the future.
ivan
have anybody tried vectorworks as bim
and as landscape ???