Complex Profile Siding in ArchiCAD
If you look at any of the exterior model images I’ve shared over the past few years, you might have noticed the siding. It’s most obvious in the projects with lap siding, but even the more modernist boxes I’ve worked on are covered in some sort of fully modeled exterior cladding. Have you ever wondered how I do that? I’ve tangentially mentioned using Complex Profiles to create my siding (and I’ve shared it in many user groups), but I’ve never formally discussed it either here on Shoegnome.com or over on Graphisoft North America’s blog. Well let’s fix that.
Complex Profile Siding in ArchiCAD
To drive home the point of constructing the building as a plywood box and then adding finishes on top, here’s the same model from the video but broken down into shell only, exterior finishes only, and then the complete model. 
When I’m first modeling, I ignore exterior finishes. Instead I focus on massing, spaces, structure, and opening locations. You’ll notice that I also do the roof finish surface as separate elements (even when it’s just a simple asphalt shingle).
When it’s time to skin the building, it’s a ton of fun to watch the facades appear. As with most projects, one you understand the cladding and trim system, the exterior evolves and appears VERY quickly.
The finished model looks awesome, probably about 20% cooler than doing it another way. Furthermore, working this way helps me understand the various facets of the building. When adding cladding after the shell, it becomes quite clear where the transitions between hidden materials are and where issues might arise. When covering a plywood and concrete box with stucco or lap siding in this manner, you become aware that the exterior finish doesn’t connect in the same way to everything it covers.
I love that this process better mimics how the real building will eventually go together. Like the guys building it in the field, I come across the same areas that need to get built out or cause conflicts. In other words, this process aids BIM.
What did I forget?
For siding like stucco, I create a short complex profile then set a vertical stretch-allowing the placed elements (typically walls) to stretch from the minimum required height to the maximum (remember with Complex Profiles you can stretch bigger, but not smaller). The details of the Complex Profile are a bit specific to my template, but we can cover that more in a future video, if that interests people.
For siding that is not monolithic, like lap siding or some other finish with a repeating pattern, I make the Complex Profile the full height. If there are any trim bands that are continuous, I often include those as part of the primary Complex Profile as well.
Want More Blog Posts on the Magic of Complex Profiles in ArchiCAD?
- Complex Profile Creation Techniques and Complex Profile Stairs (VIDEOS)
- Stained Glass Window Tutorial
Patrick May
I’ve used this in the past, and found that it looks great! It can be a minor hassle to keep everything coordinated in the event that the design needs to change. Thanks for the tip on intersection groups, I’ve had trouble with basement furr walls and their associated concrete walls interacting, this could solve this (I hope).
one other note I would add would be in scheduling. adding twice as many windows can be a minor issue for window schedules. I label all empty openings with an ID of “00” and exclude this from my window schedule. I don’t filter windows by type (empty opening for example) because I may want to exclude other windows than empty openings (stopped glass for example), and I find it easiest to simply label any window with an ID of “00” to exclude it.
Jared Banks
Patrick, great points. I do something very similar. I think I use the ID “EMPTY”. It’s better to exclude this way rather than by layer because that gets harder to juggle. I like your solution though because it’s a reminder that not all exclusions are because of being an empty opening. I will have to switch. Maybe to “Not Scheduled”? I like clarity.
The intersection groups will definitely fix your wall problem in basements.
A comment on Twitter reminded me I need to write more about pensets because that’s a hidden secret in this video.
Nathan Hildebrandt
Jared,
This great example of modelling works lovely on small projects, the problems associated with added the cladding as separate walls is a time killer for us for little output gain on large projects. We have experimented on a number of projects with Complex Profile walls with integrated cladding with varying levels of detail to try and find the optimum performance / output gains. It is a fine line but we are shifting away from complex profiles with multiple finishes due to single labelling constraints.
Just a thought you would be able to do a similar thing with your project you used as an example, instead of using a composite and series of complex profiles you could have done the walls as a few different complex profiles (where the vertical break up is different), you would end up with a few less complex profiles and you wouldn’t need empty windows that can conflict with your actual openings. These complex profiles would also turn the corner. Also depending on the settings you use in the complex profile you could have only the siding as a finish and all other elements as core and get the same partial display if you were trying to achieve it.
Nathan
Jared Banks
Nathan, yeah I could see how on a larger project this solution could become overwhelming. I’ve only used it up to about a 10,000 sq. ft. project (so say about 900-1,000 m2). But I wonder if as the scale increases there’s some solution that uses modules or some finishes that are included into the composites, or… I don’t know. I’m wary of adding the finish to the main walls and using CPs instead of Composites. I worry that it would cause some unnatural breaks in the standard walls. I’d rather have the envelope pure/natural. But ask me again later this year or next when I hope to be working on some much larger projects. I might be singing a different tune then!
But I REALLY like the idea of employing the finish/structure/other function to all the elements and controlling visibility that way. That opens up some interesting avenues.
As always thanks for the great comment.
Traci D'Alessio
This is a really useful tip. Thanks. The chamfered columns are lovely. How did you model them?
Jared Banks
Traci, thanks. Those columns are Morphs. I can’t remember exactly which creation method I did to make them, but a video/post explaining those columns and the columns from this project (which might be my favorite ArchiCAD model ever) is in the works. But I probably won’t get it done until after I settle in Seattle. So February? I’ll push it to the top of the list though.
Eric Gedney
Are you dedicated to using only native ArchiCAD objects and bits? Because CADimage has a great tool for surfaces which attaches itself to the wall and therefore adjusts when you adjust doors, windows, etc. All of the problems that you bring up are non-issues with this tool. The roof covering tool is even better since one object models any roof type that you want plus all the trim, gutters and downspouts. Just saying that a solution is better than a workaround.
That said, I agree that the complex profile can still be used for many awesome things and I will think about where I can use it in my future modeling. Thanks.
Jason Smith
Hi Jared
I have been using CP’s after seeing your videos and Eric Bobrow’s.
I like to use CP’s as complete walls i.e. interior lining, framing, cavity battens and siding (in NZ we say cladding) all in one. You could still model like you have done Jared with flat walls without siding. Then create the complex profile with siding, select the exterior walls and change to the CP with siding . Then you only have to change the window and not the empty opening in the siding. Make sure the reference is in the same place for the original wall and the CP. I like to have exterior walls with the reference line on the exterior face of the framing.
Interior walls I use centre line as the reference, so you can change the composite without moving the wall position.
Cadimage have a paid add-on called Coverings which does exactly the same thing as you are doing with CP’s (it is a New Zealand tool) http://www.cadimage.com/Products/Tools/Coverings.
Basically you select a wall and attached a covering to it. The covering handles trims around openings and you can have different claddings with in one covering. The current version of this is a lot better that the pervious version. There are some issues where the covering will need to be deleted and a new one attached (using the drop to inject the settings makes this fairly painless). Coverings work on walls, roofs, slabs and columns. Cadimage have other add-ons that may be useful it worth a look and no I don’t work for Cadimage. Most NZ AC users will have Cadimage Add-ons they also put together the NZ INT Template. The NZ Template is focused on Residential Buildings.
I now use mixture of Coverings on walls, roofs with Composites and CP’s.
The cut horizontally of the bottom of the siding board, how to you handle it in details? I agree you need to reduce the number of faces in the profile but I wouldn’t cut the board horizontally so that you would not have the add 2D info in the detail window. I also create CP’s for roof, parapet flashings and other major flashings. The choice I make before making them is will it be seen in plan, sections and elevations if it is needed in 2 of them then it is totally worth making it.
Jason Smith
One more thing.
I have come across an add-on for interior tiling for bathrooms etc go to Eptar for there tiling for AC.
http://www.eptar.hu/cadsupport.php?id=product_block&pID=1&Lang=ENG
I have looked at this product for a while now and I’m seriously thinking about purchasing it.
Jared Banks
Eric and Jason, I’ve never used Cadimage’s add-ons but I’ve heard good things. I’d love to have someone write a post that follows up this one describing how their solution works. Clearly I need to download a demo and check it out.
I’m not against using 3rd party solutions but since I work with so many different users/firms I try to develop and use techniques that work with the native tools. I also like that the complex profile solution reinforces skills that are useful elsewhere. By using CPs for siding a user learns more about that tool.
As for using one Complex Profile for the whole wall….enough people are recommending it that I’ll have to relook at that route. Bet I wonder if it creates too many unique conditions and complex profiles. I like that by separating the finish from the stud wall that one has only a single composite for all exterior walls. So it’s easier to make global Changes. With multiple CPs that incorpate multiple finishes I worry about if that shifts the complexity from the model to the management of attributes. I prefer to keep my attributes (composites and complex profiles) as pure as possible.
I really appreciate everyone’s comments and looking forward to hearing more solutions. One thing raised over on Linkedin is how do all these solutions handle export to IFC. I don’t know enough to provide any advice on that.
As for the Eptar tiling tool. That looks cool too. They did a guest post for me last year that talked about that tool.
Guest Blogger Kata Danis: [eptar] Tiling Accessory for ArchiCAD https://shoegnome.com/2013/02/04/guest-blogger-kata-danis-eptar-tiling-accessory-for-archicad/
Jack
Jared, couldn’t you add trim & sill to the “real” window but make it thicker so that it protrudes beyond the CP siding?
Jared Banks
Definitely that would work. And for simpler projects I’m trying to do that more. Doing that just means you need to make the empty opening bigger so there’s no conflict with the trim in section.
Larry Martin
Also, how do you get the shutters to sit on top of the siding? Great tips though. I wish AC could add that empty opening automatically, when it sees that it is adjacent to a wall or CP. That is one of the things that is very handy in Revit.
Jared Banks
Windows cutting holes in multiple walls would be awesome. Maybe someday…
As for the shutters, they are independent Objects that I created, not the shutters that can be turned on by the window objects. I find I almost never use those shutters and only rarely use the trim that come with the windows. I try more and more to use the trim from the Window object, but when the cross section gets complex or has atypical connections with other trim, I find I need to go full custom.
Glad you enjoyed the videos.
Larry Martin
Interesting advice on the trim in windows. I do occasionally get frustrated by it, and have thought of other solutions. Same is true with doors. I would like to do things with door and window trim that the built-ins do not provide. I know that some people don’t like door and window trim to even show up in plan view. Do you show the trim in plan, or just elevations and 3d views?
Jared Banks
It depends on the project. But I do typically show the trim in plan. For trim not attached to the windows and doors, I put it on a layer that shows on the plan.
Reece Carter
I’m commenting here without reading other comments, but this is the perfect solution for renovations and dealing with the scenario of demoing only the veneer of a wall and having an accurate demo plan.
On an off note, where is the best video regarding building materials for 17?
Jared Banks
Thank. Best video regarding building materials? Depends on what you’re looking for. I’ve done two so far. There are also a few other great Building Materials post on Shoegnome (not all by me). You can find them all here: https://shoegnome.com/tag/building-materials/
Phil Allsopp
Hi Jared:
I’m working on some minimalist wainscoting for some projects and found your video on Complex Profiles to be very helpful…..Only 3 years late!!
Phil
Jared Banks
🙂 This technique is great for wainscotting. Especially because you can just swap the complex profile to switch between baseboard and wainscot. And if you need simple inset panels, the Niche Object works great.
Matthew
Thanks for this Jared.
Given it’s a few years since the original post and I’m new to Archicad, I’m curious as to which is the best technique, your ply box with complex profile finish or to have the whole wall buildup as a complex profile (can the whole roof buildup be a complex profile?)
Jared Banks
I’m partial to my technique. I still do the same today. I would highly discourage you from doing the entire wall as one complex profile. That method will bite you in the ass in a variety of ways. You’ll end up with more complex profiles than you expect, you might find weirdness with window trim recognizing the extent of the wall where the window is placed, your model will be slower in 3D, etc. You might not deal with all those issues on a given project, but trying to do the whole wall assembly from footing to roof or structural wall + siding as one element is a recipe for trouble.
Also you can do the whole roof assembly as a complex profile. I have done that on a few projects; but typically it’s not necessary.
Mark Renz
Hi Jared:
May I ask how you trim the top of the siding to match the wall height? I have noticed that the siding profile is +/-35′ high.
Jared Banks
I use a solid element operation. The siding is typically cut by the eave above. If there’s no eave, then I usually use a piece of trim to cut the siding. There’s almost always something above the siding! In the rare cases when that’s not possible, I’ll change the height of the complex profile to be exact.
Mark Renz
Thanks!!! Greatly appreciate the response. That’s very helpful. Just getting into ArchiCad (I’m a recovering 20+ year AutoDesk user) and learning the ins and outs. Your website/videos, etc are extremely helpful.
Jared Banks
Glad to help. You’ll be much happier in the world of ARCHICAD…once you get through the transition period!
Pingback: Openings for Complex Profile Siding in ARCHICAD 23 – Shoegnome Architects
jeff johnson
and it only took 10 years … i am devoted to archicad having used it since 1988 and have never used any other cad system but archicad … and one constant complaint i have had is how the add more new function while not improving existing issues such as you commented on … just curious can you add the siding skin to you wall as a complex profile of the entire assembled wall? having attempted this in the past i know the results were less then desirable with both elevation and plan graphic issues when doing this ?
Jared Banks
I am very much against using complex profiles to include siding in the primary wall assembly. It never reduces problems, just creating new ones. There are also glitches in ARCHICAD when placing windows in walls with varying thickness. Sills and jambs can get weird. But beyond the modeling bugs, the biggest issue is the siding should not be dependant on what’s behind it. The skin and the structure need to be independent. Merging the two creates more special cases and unique conditions than having them separate. It also complicates model display.
Dyana R
Hello! I love your page and your videos!
I have just changes all my wall composites to be basic and then used your siding lap from your template (I am a 23 user)
The issue seems to be with my wall corners, one will always extend past another once I put this skin on the walls.
I have taken a screen shot but how do I resolve this ?
Jared Banks
It sounds like you are having a Layer Intersection Group issue. Here are some old posts on the topic: https://shoegnome.com/tag/layer-intersection-groups/
You need to make sure your siding and your framing wall are on different layers that have different layer intersection groups. If they don’t, then they’ll try to merge. If they do, then the walls will ignore anything with a different layer intersection group number.
Dyana R
Hello Again, So I made a new air space and set that to 999, change the siding to 999 and created a layer to have this siding on and after all is said and done I still have this extension issue.
Jared Banks
It’s not the Building Materials that are the issue, it’s the Layer. You need to put the Siding on a separate layer with a different Layer Intersection Group from the layer with the stud walls. If you download my template (especially my ARCHICAD 22 template with the sample building), you’ll see what I mean.