Conditional Operators… aka Graphic Operators… aka POST 100
(note: if you read this before 11 pm on Sunday June 19th, 2011, you should reread it as I’ve made some important updates)
In many 2D drawings (whether done by hand or flatcad) parts of objects are left undrawn for clarity. Railings, for instance, are cut in front of elevations to better show what’s beyond. How do you do that in ArchiCAD without completely turning off the railing and adding it partially back in 2D or doing some weird slicing of objects (for instance by making the railing in 3 parts with 1 part on a separate layer so that it can be turned off). Options like that are doable, but are neither pretty nor supportive of the BIM workflow. I would rather have a solution that doesn’t interfere with proper modeling techniques.
Solid Element Operations (SEO) and smart use of layers, layer combinations, priority numbers and layer intersection groups provide a solution. Layer intersection groups, layers, and layer combinations all deserve a post unto themselves (so I’ll only talk briefly about those). The operators are beams with a beam priority number of 1. The targets are columns and beams with higher priorities. When the layer intersection groups are the same, the beam priority trumps the SEO, hence the targets appear because the operator has lower priority. When the layer intersection groups are different, the beam priorities have no effect and the SEO works. So this suggests that this trick will work with beams, columns, and walls, but not slabs, roofs, and objects which don’t have priority numbers.
Now for an example of a conditional graphic operator:
Two caveats: I haven’t seen how this works in ArchiCAD 15. I presume it will be the same, but with the enhancements to trimming commands I don’t want to assume anything. I’ll get v15 loaded up sometime in the next week or two and verify there’s no change. I’ve also found this trick to be a little finicky. In v14 (the only version I’ve tested it in), the model sometimes doesn’t update the SEO properly when switching between layer combinations. So I get instances when the railing still shows in elevation or remains cut in my 3D document. A quick review of effected drawings and a manual switching back and forth between layer combinations gets everything working. But be warned and double check everything is displaying correctly before printing. As this is probably not what layer intersection groups and priority numbers are supposed to be used for, I don’t imagine this glitch is much known by Graphisoft or high on the ‘to fix’ list. And that’s okay. I’d rather Graphisoft focus on more important things.
06/21/11 update: my first explorations with v15 suggest that this trick still works if the operator is a beam and the targets are columns and walls, but no longer if the targets are beams. I’ve got more research to do.
06/26/11 update: Here’s a post that takes advantage of this behavior for a different purpose.
Eric Bobrow
Jared –
This is brilliant! I had no idea that SEO were conditional based on layer intersection groups.
Two questions:
Have you tested this on earlier versions, going back to AC10?
Also, what is the best way to make sure all is good before printing? I’d be concerned if refreshes are not consistent and automatic when you Rebuild the drawings on the sheets.
Eric
Jared Banks
I haven’t tried it on earlier versions, but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. I’ll see if it works in v11 tomorrow. I don’t have v10 on my machine. As far as checking, I just go sheet by sheet through the layout book and open any views that looks weird. Views that are correct shouldn’t regenerate again unless you change the model. And the glitch is caused (as far as I can tell) because the model doesn’t think it needs to regenerate. So going to goofy views doesn’t trigger others to regen. I found I developed a system with the order I viewed the drawings before printing to make sure everything looked right on the first pass. But I haven’t worked on this project in a few months so I don’t exactly remember my process. And it didn’t always glitch…
Karl Ottenstein
I cannot reproduce this behavior consistently with a variety of SEOps, Jared – e.g., a simple roof trim. I have a feeling you’ve come across a bug rather than a feature.
As far as I know, the intersection group number should have no effect on the behavior of solid element ops…
Jared Banks
Okay a little more info on this, now that I remember the missing link. The operators are beams with a beam priority of 1. The targets are columns and beams with higher priorities. When the layer intersection groups are the same, the beam priority trumps the SEO, hence the railing appears because the operator has lower priority. When the layer intersection groups are different, the beam priorities have no effect and the SEO works. So this suggests this trick will work with beams, columns, and walls, but not slabs, roofs, and shells which don’t have priority numbers. I’m assuming shells don’t have priority numbers. So yeah that sounds a bit like a glitch, but a cool one worth exploiting until it’s fixed. If it can be fixed, since SEOs and priority numbers can’t be processed simultaneously.
Daniel
Beautiful drawings!
Are thos sliding shutters on the lower level a custom object? How do you achieve the modelling detail in the hardware for example?
Jared Banks
Daniel, Thanks. Yes the sliding shutters on the lower level are custom objects. I think made out of slabs. No GDL. I might have tweaked the 2D symbol. The shutters on the main floor are walls with the niche tool for the insets. The hardware is all complex profiles. I’ll put together some images and do a post about the shutters sometime soon.
Scott Graham
Great trick! In general, have you found working with beam & column handrail constructions to be more effective than GDL objects?
I’ve been experimenting with this in AC15, and it seems hit-or-miss with the beams. I’ve somehow managed to make the Operator beam cut into one Target beam, but not multiple beams. Had any breakthroughs?
Jared Banks
Check your priority numbers. I’m guessing that’s why it works with some and not others. I typically use complex profiles (beams, columns, and/or walls) to build my railings. I find I have more flexibility. And it’s much easier to change a project’s worth of railings by revising the complex profile. But I have to admit, I haven’t spent that much time looking at the object railings in a while. I probably should. It’s just so fast to space out columns for the verticals, and then draw the horizontals with fills and extrude. And it’s it’s drawn with the beam tool, then it’s easy to slope it for stairs. So yes. For me it’s faster, more flexible, and easier to not use the objects.
Patrick
This is a cool way to deal with 3d vs 2d views. In our office we never use stock library parts for things like railings or exterior ornamental components.
We either use beams & columns w/ the top beam being the only one visible in plan views.
Another option I have gone with a few times is to just save the created (beam/column) railing as a gdl object, then edit the 2d script to only show the outlines.
Jared Banks
Yeah I find beams and columns a great solution. Especially if the beams are complex profiles, then you can typically use one beam for all the horizontal members for each run. Saving it as a gdl object and then editing the 2D script is definitely the way to go. I don’t do that often enough. I think with the Morph tool though, I’m going to have to force myself to start saving more objects and finally learn some more about scripting. It’s well past time.
costas
HI
I have a rather off-topic question!
In the sceond elevation picture with all the labeling stuff how did you do the multi-leader that represent the same material?
Did you do it by 2D work or with some special leader type?
best regards
Costas Issigonis
Jared Banks
Costas, happy to go off topic! My hope is always that everything I don’t discuss in images will spark further discussion.
What you are seeing is 2D cheats. I used the spline tool and set all its parameters to mimic the look of the leader tool.
HOWEVER… check out Master Script’s Label Multileader. I don’t think it can do the graceful spline curves, but it’ll give you multiple lines from one piece of text in a more true BIM way.
Here’s the link: Masterscript Label Multileader
costas
thanks
for the superfast answer!!
I am aware about masterscript multi leader,but
even thought it does what I almost want it does not do it in the way I would like to!!
I would like to have a leader that can have multiple arrows and a circle around the text instead of the usual box!So I can just put the number of the material instead of the material itself!I think this way an elevation it is less “stressed” with all this text around it!
best regards
costas
Jared Banks
Costas, send Master Script an e-mail. I’m sure it’d be easy for him to add that function. And I’m guessing you’re not the only one who would like that option.
Juan
Hi Jared, a question out of topic. How do you made the fills of the geometry appear a little clearer in comparation of the edges?
Thanks!
Jared Banks
I don’t understand your question. Can you point to an example of what you mean?
Juan
Hi again! let me try to explain. In the last image, your 3d document / perspective of the cabin, the fills like brick, or wood look less strong in comparation with the edges of the geometry, like a very subtle gray. This image: https://shoegnome.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/East-Elevation-3D-document-in-CD-set.jpg
when i make a 3d document, usually the fills has the same value of the edges. Here i put an example:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbk5s7pyy67g0vy/EXAMPLE.jpg?dl=0
Here, the tiles in floor, and the wood of the last wall has the same value of all geometry edges
Thanks!
Jared Banks
Okay. Now I see what you’re asking. First off, here’s a video and blog post on 3D documents:
https://shoegnome.com/2014/01/21/black-white-3d-documents-in-archicad/
That video runs through one way I tackle 3D Documents. But the real answer is (in the image above) I don’t override the Pens for the 3D Document. Instead I use a grayscale Pen Set. Here’s a link to a lot of articles on Pen Sets: http://blog.graphisoftus.com/?s=%22Pen+Sets%2C+Part%22
I have a special pen I use for Cover Fill hatch patterns. That pen is thin and gray. So for the image you’re curious about, all the pens are black, except the hatch pattern pen which is gray. If you download my template you can see it in action on a live file.